Indians spent over Rs 21,000 crore (Rs 210 billion) in bribes and illegal payouts in 2004 -- close to one per cent of the country's GDP.
This is per Mr.Narayana Murthy, Chairman of Infosys Technologies
Here is a list of Insitutions that he has listed:
Parliament
Legislatures
Courts
Distribution systems
****
Can we adopt a DON'T GIVE policy?
Is it possible in India today ?
Will it work?
20 comments:
Good point, we can adopt a no give policy, for that most conscious people try not to give, but are forced to give just to save time. I know its not the rite thing to do, but the path of not giving is way tooooooooooooo difficult.
I think India does need the DONT GIVE policy. Sure, it would take time and innocent people would be bounced like Kamal in Indian, but we have to start sometime.
Would be great if this was the new year's resolution for all.
history says that when people don't get justice, they take law into their hands. since corruption is so wide spread, a cleansing revolution will happen sooner than later -- or at least the history indicates so...
We need to consider corruption along with the following other issues instead of looking at it in isolation
a) Education levels
b) escalation process to address greivances
c) salaries of Govt. employees
The common population needs to be educated to help them understand their rights.
Once they understand their rights and want to exercise them, we need to have a very good process to ensure it. For this to work, we need to have good politicians and administrators at the top of the chain. There should be stringent laws and punishments for corruption at higher levels.
Finally, the salaries of Govt. employees also needs to be adjusted to bring it on par with the private companies.
It is possible in India if you are spend time. But what kind or magnitude of corruption are we talking about? The money people (general public) give at some government offices to get their job done are peanuts compared to what is going on at higher levels and it is the high level corruption that amounts to a good % of the quoted amount.
There is corruption based on NEED and GREED. The corruption at the lower level at the government offices are based on need and bribe is taken so that they can fulfil their basic needs amidst the inflating prices. The only way this can be eliminated to a good extent is to increase payscale for these people. The corruption based ion GREED can be eliminated only by teaching human values and ethics!
I am glad you brought this topic up for discussion Narayan.
I always tell people who complain about corruption and the bribery in India, that the people who give are the ones to blame.
Will everyone stop giving ? Will everybody stop taking the easy way out to get their job done?
There's no answer to that.
Am I contributing to the bribery by giving? Am I going to stop giving?
Now that is something that each one of us can answer - each one of us can make a choice. I for one made that choice though I have been challenged by many that I can not hold on to that resolve to not give and will have to give in to the "system" one time or another.
Hope one day, every "I" can add up to be able to say "we" dont give.
நீதி மறுக்கப்படும் போது,
நேர்மை மறைக்கப்படுகிறது.
தேவை தீவிரமாகும் போது,
ஆசை அதிகமாகிறது.
யாரும் [லஞ்சம்]கொடுக்க விரும்புவதில்லை.
ஆனாலும், கொடுத்தால்தான் காரியம் என்னும் போது,
நியாயம் அங்கே மறக்கப்படுகிறது.
இங்கே, கேட்பவர்கள் எண்ணிக்கை அதிகம்.
கொடுப்பவர்களுக்கு வேறு வழி தெரியவில்லை.
சட்டத்தின் பிடி கடுமையாக இறுகினாலன்றி,
அது மக்களுக்கும் சரிவரத் தெரிய வந்தாலன்றி,
திட்டம் போட்டு வாங்குபவரைக் குறைத்திட இயலாது.
கேட்பவர், வாங்குபவர் மனத்தில் மாற்றம் வரவேண்டும்.
அதுவரை இது தொடர்வதினைத் தடுத்திட இயலாது.
உடனடித் தேவை, தெளிந்த ஓர் இயக்கம்,
தன்னலமற்ற சில, பல பேர்களின் எண்ணத்திலும் செயலிலும்.
நம்பிக்கை கொள்வோம்;
நல்லதே நடக்கும்.
புத்தாண்டு வாழ்த்துகள்!!
lanjam kodukaravanum indian daan kenjam vanagravanum indian dhaan sir.
nalla manassatchi iulla manushana irukanum. on a day to day basis.
ingey nama aalugnalaey temple la kooda olunga iruka mudiyadhu.
he is looking for the shortest-cut to have a glimpse of the deity a little longer....
public discipline is aweful here.
this mindset change is fundamental to all positive changes to the society.
and it should start at the individual level...
law,court,administration all can only support this mindset change it cannot bring about that change
idhuku nama ena panna porom?
andha change vandha all changees will come gradually in the later generations.
one day being honest will becom e the 'in-thing' just like being corrupt is in now.
people who is corrupt should be looked down but sadly they r worshipped as heroes.
"pizhaikka therinchavan' nu pattam vera...
i wholeheartedly support this idea.
But change should happen at the individual level and these individuals swell to be a substantial number of ppl in the society. it takes time but it is possible.
vidhai pottu thanni oothara madhiri daan. it takes time but it works...
Narayanan,
It will work if you want to sit at home after finishing all ur duties. To finish all the duties we need to pay. Let it be anything. Thats the sad thing in India now.
actually, not giving can work only if you are perfect. Actually I'd like to ask Mr.NM how much Infy paid as bribes last year. Why pay if everything is alright? Unless one is hiding/evading something, why do it the wrong way?
No authority can do a damn if the paperwork is correct, after all they are all scared shit about the Vigilance cells.
I agree with Kirubakaran fully on the revolution bit.. It probably started in the passing of Right to Information Act this year and a couple of prosecutions have already been made. E-governance, being implemented in several states will also reduce direct interaction .
Dynamism among the top executives also helps. Take the case of BSNL for example, at least in TN. Today, the "collection" for installing a telephone is not prevelant among linesmen b'cos their attitude has been changedto feel that they are working for a corporate.
This year, I refused to pay the "Circle Fees" to the local Sales-Tax guys beacuse my papers were perfect. In spite of that, the guy demanded "at least the minimum amount !!!!" and I loudly started saying Sivaji's Kattabomman dialogue, all the time smiling. When that worked, I dialled the Vigilance cell No in front of him. It worked. I got the Assessment Order through Regd.Post at the Govt's expense.
Reflex- We DONT need to pay, we dont to feel Sad for India, We just need to kick-ass, but then we need to be perfect...
@Don
i know so many other state guys who were exploited by the local traffic police for their vehicle papers.
idhellam enna kanakiley serkaradhu?
so u r expecting some illiterate from a village to go to a tahshildar's office to kick-ass?
Forget vilage guy, how many well-educated 'professionally qualified' people hasve ever been to a collector's office and/or tahshildar's office. what kinda rules do we know?
And what does our bloody chancellors who bark at mobile phones in college campus done about all this ignorance?
ZILCH
blame it on my ignorance, i did not know the method of getting a death certificate when my dad expired.
This ignorance requires a middleman and that middleman will ask for money. and that will set the whole ball rolling.
Apart from the moral and ethical degradation, bribes & kickbacks do two things,
1. Increases the cost of service
2. Like PK mentioned - Provides an uncanny advantage to people with money.
Solution
1. Every department should publish a service level agreement. As far I know only Regional Passport Offices do that. Recently I heard they are planning to provide passports within 45 days.
2. What you can do with money; comes in too many forms and colors, it is part of the system.
Also, when service level agreements are in place, the departments might be forced to ask for more money to do an out- of-turn job ; in the name of premium processing. So in this case, it will the government who is taking the money, instead of the individuals.
With no service level agreements in place and/or strictly followed, bribes might be the only recourse, atleast once you give it, you are assured of getting the job done.
Other than these, I don't see any economical impact. I'm not defending it, just thinking out loud.
Regards,
PA
Narayan sir..this is a perennial problem in every country in the world...for instance lobbying is also a form of bribery..the question of can we adopt a dont give policy??? i dont think so...at the end of the day people want their needs to be satisfied and if the need is strong enough they would rather give the money and get things done rather than wait...it is but human tendency to maximize their personal wealth...therefore under the belief that the likelihood of future problems (such as being fired or prosecuted among others) is low, officers tend to accept bribes...in this backdrop i think it is a long road to utopia for India (and for that matter any other country in the world)
VIJAY The problem arises IMHO because of people who give to save time.
I also agree about the difficulties arising. But somehow we have to bell the cat.
TT_GiantThank you. Yes..if we start the DON'T GIVE policy slowly
but steadily...I think things will change atleast in the next decade :)
A good New Year's resolution ! You are right.
KirubakaranI think just like you. I am sure, a revolution will happen
and I wish it happens soon. Who is going to lead it..!! Time will tell
Anonymous
a. Education - This is exactly what the politicians don't want to happen. But..
do you think Educated masses don't corrupt??
b. Good Politians/Punishments - Yeah I am with you 100%. I think we need a cleansing
top to bottom
c. Salaries - So..if this happens do you think it will lessen corruption? I don't think so.!
Naikutti Little drops of water make a ocean. Every effort at every level
will help I feel.
Corruption due to Need - I don't agree with this. IMHO Pay increase won't lessen corruption..!
It should come from within. How many people..even if they are rich will walk away if they see
a 100 Rupee note on the ground??
Human values/Ethics Teaching - Good Idea. Maybe we should tell SJ Suryah and the semi porn
film industry folks to send these messages to the local people ....Just kidding :)
Cosmic Blob Nice thoughts...yeah...every effort will help in eliminating this nonsense.!
Imagine..how India would be if there is no corruption.!! Big happy dream.!
SKSuper.!! Yeah change is to come from all around. Laws should be stricter.
Prabhu Karthik
Your have brought a few good points PK.
a) Public Discipline - How to do it?? I believe in imposing Emergency..I even wrote about
it a few months back...and saw a lot of flames.! I honestly believed that democracy doesn't
work the way it should - in INdia.
b) Yeah, mindset change should occur and I am hopeful that it will happen in the next decade
atleast. We have some good policians and some good leaders. Let's sow now...!!
Reflex Looks like you've given up my friend.!! No...youth of today are the torch bearers
of tomorrows India.!! Never give up. Any small contribution from anyone to remove corruption
will gradually grow into a big movement.!!
DONMaybe we should ask Mr. N.Moorthy. But I am glad he has the guts to come out and
talk...how many goenkas,Ambanis, Tatas and Birlas do this? Needs guts don't you think??
Good to know the BSNL linemen's attitude these days.!! You know what..? Why did this happen?
'cause people began to go wireless. Made these linemen s**t in their pants.!!
Hats off to you Da..for doing this in the ST office.!! I wish people follow your path.
Prabhu KarthikDeath Certificates - Another long story.!! Birth / Death Certificates...bribes
rule.!! No need to know the rules PK. If someone has the guts to talk to the Thasildar...IMHO it
will work.!! ...and these middlemen.!! They have to go....they are everywhere from RTO, Thasildar
to wherever..there is corruption.!!
Prem Abraham Passport offices have come a long way now. The Govt needs a pat on their
back for that. Though there is corruption there as well..I think the dept. is more accountable
these days thanks to the SLA you just mentioned..which is a great point.!
TaligunnerOk, let's compare US. Have you ever been affected by corruption or bribes? Have
you ever had the guts to ask someone for bribes?? IMHO, doesn't affect the common man directly.
Ofcourse Lobbying etc. is there..which are extremely tough to abolish.!
IMO, i think increasing wages wouldnt be the right solution for corruption. With the increasing number of private enterprises, i was wondering if this has plagues the private sector too?
This needs a conscious level of efforts thru policies and strict law and order.
Narayanan,
Please check my recent blog on the same. I had posted it few days back. It is reflecting my mindset. I still have some hope ;). I will mail you or blog abt this in detail and u'll realize how difficult it is here without any bribe.
It is feasible.. but it has to start with a strong leadership and a continous campgain..
We need to start spreading the culture of fairness.. It will take time.. but is doable..
We need to re-orient ourselves about 'right Vs Wrong'.. and it starts from the stop.. I am encouraged by the recent explusion of 10 MPs from the parliament.. It sends a strong message..
Happy New Year..
This problem cannot be solved in the immediate future. It needs a lot of planning.
* We have not seen even a single ad in paper or television about "Say No to Bribery"
* When the Government is keen to get the people to pay their taxes, why can't they publisice a drive against bribery?
* I post this comment, while my father is burning the wastes thrown by others opposite to our house. Though there is a vehicle to carry these wastes, people find it easy to throw them opposite to our house. So we have to bribe the man who brings the vehicle to collect those wastes(he too slips away with the money without collecting them sometimes),else those polyethene bags find their way into our compound making things miserable.
* There is no way to make those oppertunists realise(including the ppl in my street). So when even ppl don't have the ethical behaviour with such small matter, where in the world is it possible to crub bribery to the fullest?
*We can even restructure the formula for WORK
WORK = FORCE * DISPLACEMENT * MONEY
in 75% of yur vetures it is possible. the trick is to stay in the 75% 'dont give policy" activity.the 25% of the activity is in the vice like grib of organised group. there is another side of the story. the good people are looked with suspicion- suspecting he asks for more, rather than acknowledging his intergrity. if 50% of blame is on the corrupt the other 50% is on the other group who are ready to facilitate corruption, ready to bribe, impatiant to wait, resigned to the fate.the willingness to bribe is the major cause of concern and equally to be frowned upon.-
as far as the people who cry about corruption, you leave the tax evading people, you leave the people who wants an easy life,u will end up with negligile level of people who has the moral right to raise their voice against corruption. they are silent minoirty. right from corporate level, business people, individuals u will find this silent minority who are ineffecive. mojority of our own people, individuals are low in moral standards. it is the mind set that has to see a change - including that of young generations. we do preachings for others to follow which we donot follow ourself.can any individual or corporate who lamanets on prevailing corruption can say that they have not faciliated corruption on one time or other. sheer hypocrasy
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